I don’t think that… generally, nor specifically in the case of Ender… that it is about wanting to personally have some kind of total spectrum experience of all possible experiences, as some kind of… maximalist sensory/mindstate fetish kind of thing.
There for sure are probably some people like that, but I’d say thats very uncommon.
What I think is more commone is two things:
Despite having base tendencies we often fall back to, humans just vary, significantly, in terms of how they tend to act toward others.
and
People are capable of actual, real world character development, of doing something and thinking it was good at the time… and realize they were wrong, learning, growing, changing, maybe not in totality, but in very significant and impactful ways.
This is not often as common or extreme in the real world as it is in our stories… but that we emphasize this in our stories also means something about us.
It is about a wide spectrum of potential in all humans, not necessarily a single person exhibiting the whole spectrum, not out of some kind of… experiential hedonism.
At least, thats how I see it.
Another defining trait of humans is that we will do things explicitly against our own self interest, out of an adherence to a moral doctrine or dogma, or, making ones own moral decisions about what is wrong and right, to the point of great personal sacrifice.
Oh, no, I never meant Ender as about “total experience” or hedonism (that also why I pointed out that it wasn’t premeditated).
Just that the duality is a sort of step-by-step consequence where firstly Ender had/chose one experience & only after that one the other (when presented with the second choice he already “just” had the first experience and wasn’t wishing more of it).
We are made of experience & less of premeditation.
Sorry, I don’t actuality think Ender works as this example, too young & the story/the genocide presented as an too easy choice (and I’m to clumsy with words to express myself properly).
But, with a lot of changes imagine the characters first choice being on the planet to save the eqq queen (as if that was a separate Ender) - the choice between not being destructive & assuring humanity is safe.
And I still agree with everything you wrote abut humans basically, my sub-point was somewhere within that
Another defining trait of humans is that we will do things explicitly against our own self interest, out of an adherence to a moral doctrine or dogma, or, making ones own moral decisions about what is wrong and right, to the point of great personal sacrifice.
Yes, but in Ender’s that against self interest is saving a bug, not eg deciding to stop fighting & let humanity fall (if he had known it wasn’t a sim).
The ‘against self-interest’ is usually so smol that it’s basically like having a pet - I have to feed it & sometimes it’s work (the return is in the feeling, the experience, and friendship - and to that, I’m saying that saving a potentially dangerous species is a bit similar to that one person).
Sorry for not replying to this for a while, been busy/distracted.
Basically: Ah, I have misunderstood you somewhat, thank you for the corrections, and well basically I agree completely.
Only possibly thing I could add is that uh… yeah, Ender’s version of ‘against self interest’… is itself potentially genocidal to humanity, it is very extreme, so… yeah that aspect of it is pretty rare in fiction, its usually nowhere near that grand…
So yeah I agree, Ender probably is not the best example of a more ‘normal’ version of that.
I don’t think that… generally, nor specifically in the case of Ender… that it is about wanting to personally have some kind of total spectrum experience of all possible experiences, as some kind of… maximalist sensory/mindstate fetish kind of thing.
There for sure are probably some people like that, but I’d say thats very uncommon.
What I think is more commone is two things:
Despite having base tendencies we often fall back to, humans just vary, significantly, in terms of how they tend to act toward others.
and
People are capable of actual, real world character development, of doing something and thinking it was good at the time… and realize they were wrong, learning, growing, changing, maybe not in totality, but in very significant and impactful ways.
This is not often as common or extreme in the real world as it is in our stories… but that we emphasize this in our stories also means something about us.
It is about a wide spectrum of potential in all humans, not necessarily a single person exhibiting the whole spectrum, not out of some kind of… experiential hedonism.
At least, thats how I see it.
Another defining trait of humans is that we will do things explicitly against our own self interest, out of an adherence to a moral doctrine or dogma, or, making ones own moral decisions about what is wrong and right, to the point of great personal sacrifice.
Oh, no, I never meant Ender as about “total experience” or hedonism (that also why I pointed out that it wasn’t premeditated).
Just that the duality is a sort of step-by-step consequence where firstly Ender had/chose one experience & only after that one the other (when presented with the second choice he already “just” had the first experience and wasn’t wishing more of it).
We are made of experience & less of premeditation.
Sorry, I don’t actuality think Ender works as this example, too young & the story/the genocide presented as an too easy choice (and I’m to clumsy with words to express myself properly).
But, with a lot of changes imagine the characters first choice being on the planet to save the eqq queen (as if that was a separate Ender) - the choice between not being destructive & assuring humanity is safe.
And I still agree with everything you wrote abut humans basically, my sub-point was somewhere within that
Yes, but in Ender’s that against self interest is saving a bug, not eg deciding to stop fighting & let humanity fall (if he had known it wasn’t a sim).
The ‘against self-interest’ is usually so smol that it’s basically like having a pet - I have to feed it & sometimes it’s work (the return is in the feeling, the experience, and friendship - and to that, I’m saying that saving a potentially dangerous species is a bit similar to that one person).
Sorry for not replying to this for a while, been busy/distracted.
Basically: Ah, I have misunderstood you somewhat, thank you for the corrections, and well basically I agree completely.
Only possibly thing I could add is that uh… yeah, Ender’s version of ‘against self interest’… is itself potentially genocidal to humanity, it is very extreme, so… yeah that aspect of it is pretty rare in fiction, its usually nowhere near that grand…
So yeah I agree, Ender probably is not the best example of a more ‘normal’ version of that.