45% of men 18 to 25 have never asked out a woman in person
I can’t speak for the whole 45% but some of us have heard stories from women about how that other 55% can behave. I think I’d rather wait for a lady to (never) ask me out then put someone in the position of thinking “Oh, is he gonna take it bad if I say no?”
This is it. I feel like I am inflicting myself on women. That I am a problem for them simply for existing. Why would I do something like that to someone if its as bad as we are always being told?
This is it. I feel like I am inflicting myself on women. That I am a problem for them simply for existing.
And that attitude and thought process is exactly why you would have a hard time dating. Don’t think like that, friend.
Get out and ask some people. Plenty of women like it as long as you’re polite
Until you approach another wrong one and you get another lecture for saying hi
This shit is actually happening
and you get another lecture for saying hi
I’ve never ever had that happen. And I’m old enough to have fucked your grandma when she was still young and cute.
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but I just don’t think it’s nearly as common as Lemmy likes to believe.
My personal experience trumps your personal experience!
This is the problem. We’re all so keen to talk, and not to listen. You’re old enough to have fucked dude’s Grandma? Congratulations you lived in a different world.
Congratulations you lived in a different world.
And I’m still in this world. Dude I still date. I’m only in my 50’s. I’m not even as old as Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise.
So walk away from them, or handle it gracefully somehow. It’s the same as trying to make a friend. Doesn’t everyone make friends from time to time?
Interest + effort = relationship of any kind. Find the shared interest, make a little bit of effort… or don’t and the math doesn’t work. If romance doesn’t come, you’ve made a friend.
Enough negative experiences reinforce and define behavior.
This is true for any being with a nervous system.
IDK why you think every individual magically changing is something realistic.
Enough negative experiences reinforce and define behavior.
Unless you don’t let them.
IDK why you think every individual magically changing is something realistic.
To be honest, it doesn’t sound like you want to change. You are so resistant to it.
it’s just that you’re fragile and a disgrace. it’s revolting. the fascists are taking over. grow some confidence. we need heroes, not insecure little boys. you know what will get you laid real quick? bashin the fash.
Yes, fragility is disgracefvll veakness. To defeat the enemy ze men mvst be strong, zey mvst be heroes, zey must have vill to seize vhat zey vant. It vill to pover zat vill tvrn little boys into strong men. Zis is antifascism.
If every individual you approach gives you a lecture you might want to check out not being around those people. Try something different.
I’ve never, ever gotten a lecture. I’ve been married for about four years, but before the pandemic I picked up 4 women in a year that led to relationships of months before I ended them when I realized there wasn’t enough there to keep me interested. Don’t get me wrong, i’ve been dumped plenty and rejected plenty. I just learned to move on from the rejection.
It’s like job hunting, it’s a numbers game and every time you try you have a chance. Every time you don’t try nothing changes.
I just can’t imagine being lectured just by approaching someone and saying hi, asking them a question that is pertinent to the scenario, and giving them a chance to speak.
You haven’t tried dating GenZ women then.
They specifically tell you not to approach women in public.
And you know good and well that asking someone on a date is nowhere close to saying hi. Stop lying to yourself to feel right it’s embarrassing XD
If you’re approaching strangers and asking them for a date and you aren’t an adonis, wealthy or otherwise instantly recognizable in a positive way, you’re gonna get some real negative responses. No one wants some rando just asking them out, but this is not new, this is why if you go to a bar you have a wing man - being solo looks creepy.
It’s true though that I wouldn’t have dated women who are 28 or younger (seems to be the oldest of gen Z.) I’m 40. Even though i’m of another generation it’s basically been a 10% chance or less to approach someone and ask them out… but again if you don’t try it never happens. Most people are in a relationship ALL the time… the best relationships i’ve found have been by making friends first in real world circumstances (board game meetups, parties, work functions/events, hiking meetups, running meetups… you name it…) and then being friendly and literally making friends with people. If you click with someone you can literally feel it, and if you like them enough then after you’re already at least friendly acquaintances you ask them to something.
If you can’t ever make friends at a meetup or event, especially one that invites strangers and often has newcomers, the problem is you.
“Polite” implies that if you’re agreeable and friendly women will understand that you’re interested in them and not just being agreeable and friendly.
I think part of the problem is that what we’re all really after is fucking, which isn’t polite at all. Being polite about it just makes you look weak and ineffective at the thing that we all say we want but can’t mention.
If any mention of sex by a man is considered inappropriate, how is a man supposed to negotiate sex?
This is a big reason why I’m engaged: We got the impolite part out of the way first.
The “sex is impolite” thing… I think that’s a lot bigger than a lot of people give credit. I grew up in a non-denominational Christian house in the deep South. The only sex education I got was abstinence only, if you have sex with someone it’s basically the same as having sex with every person that person has ever had sex with. Your penis will fall off, her vagina will fall off, and you’ll have 37 babies.
Obviously, on an intellectual level, I’ve rejected all of that. Sex is fine and normal, having multiple partners throughout your life is normal. Your penis and her vagina will be fine, as long as you’re careful. No kids if you’re careful.
Despite this, for my entire life, sex has just been a thing that you don’t talk about. You don’t ask for. You’re not a friend if you want sex, you’re a pest. But also, you can’t want sex from someone you’ve just met, then you’re a creep and a pervert. You have to be their friend first, build a relationship and then you can want sex, but remember - you’re not a friend if you want sex, so you’re just living a lie to get sex. It’s a vicious catch 22. One of the biggest driving factors in all animals - sex - and we’ve moralized it so that we both cannot seek it and must obtain it.
I’ve got a fair few female friends. Some of them I would not mind having a deeper relationship with. But there’s always the struggle. Am I just being nice to get with her? Well, I can’t do that - I’d feel like a horrible person. So let’s just be friends and ignore the feelings for too long. Let’s let her believe we’re just friends, nothing more, until I can’t ignore it, confess feelings, and - shocker - that’s not a recipe for a relationship.
We’re all products of our environment. I can recognize a lot of the factors that have led me to having the mentality that I do. Unfortunately, the environments for so many of us are just not good ones. It feels like every major force in our lives is pushing us towards isolation. The problem isn’t men, isn’t women, it’s all just fucked. The whole thing needs an overhaul.
Thanks for this because it is exactly what I’m talking about. I wasn’t raised in a Christian house, but anything that was even vaguely titillating was considered obscene. When your mom angrily throws out a Victoria’s Secret catalog calling it “disgusting” how are you supposed to feel about liking the pictures?
If someone thinks their physical attraction is disgusting, perverse, or annoying how are they supposed to negotiate a relationship?
And unfortunately, one of the only places that are consistently telling young men they AREN’T disgusting, perverse and annoying is the same place that actively makes men into annoying, perverse, disgusting people. For a lot of young men, the only consistent positive reinforcement they receive is from Tate et al. The only ones teaching men (poorly, but still) how to navigate these interpersonal relationships are the ones turning them into pests.
None of this is the individual woman’s fault. None of this is the individual man’s fault. It’s a societal failing, and the only way we’re going to fix it is as a society. Men’s problems are women’s problems, and women’s problems are men’s problems. We all shape the world we share, and we all have a duty to shape it into a better one, for everyone.
I assume years of collectively crying about it online has made something as simple and natural like dating seem like this unachievable task.
Not sure if it’s just me, but I feel like young people are less capable than ever to socialise. I thought I was a social pariah, but I don’t have shit on some people out there.
I was a complete social reject in middle and high school so I don’t even know how to people but I just assumed that was just me and my miserable circumstances apparently a lot of people have the same problem?
Same, I struggle with people. I think it’s just that our kind of people are more active online.
There’s no third places where you can just loiter.
Men don’t want to be branded ‘creepy’ and women have constantly stated they want to be left alone. Men listened.
Man vs bear debate sealed the deal for a ton of guys
It made me decide the world would be a better place without us. What right do we have to exist if we make 50% of the world so frightened just by existing?
Even if true and you’re serious- it’s irrelevant anyway. You’re still a person and it’s your fundamental human right to exist.
Don’t ever let anyone tell you otherwise. Either we humans all get along together, or there shouldn’t be any humans.
What other conclusions is there? It’s better just to kill yourself on the inside and go along with the man vs bear crowd because the only other choice seems to be a nazi. It doesn’t mater what kind of person you are when your entire gender is considered dangerous.
Don’t let either horde of morons on the internet dictate what you believe and why.
I’m still a leftist and haven’t stopped being one just because dumb motherfuckers and inflammatory rhetoric exist.
This has made me wildly unpopular on places like Lemmy etc. but idgaf because I know my reasoning is sound and can back it up, so challenges to my views that are welcome that don’t employ valid reasoning are discarded. I live my life to my principles and idc about being agreeable or agreed with anymore.
and women have constantly stated they want to be left alone.
I haven’t seen this in the real world at all. lmao
Third places
reading this thread I’m glad I’m a removed in a relationship. my spouse is the best. i got so fucking lucky.
there’s a massive epidemic of loneliness out there. the loss of the free/cheap third spaces, lockdowns, and social media have made a fucking shitstorm. I’m scared for the generations below me just starting to enter the workforce. so many kids just unable to function properly.
i can’t solve it. but I’ve been putting my devices down more and (trying) to get out more. get more sunlight and fresh air, even if i just sit outside and watch the ducks. it’s hard out there. give yourself a break, okay? eat a snack and take a walk.
Women don’t want to be approached in public.
Men learn this quickly.
Also that speed dating stat is totally a lie, every dating event is a sausage fest.
Women don’t want to be approached in public.
I think the problem is that men don’t want to be approached in public. Or in private, for that matter. Half the joke of this is how antisocial, short-tempered, and easily discouraged men are.
Please, approach me in public. I’ll be flattered even if you’re not my type and will treat you with the utmost respect. It happened in the past.
Who are these “women” they mention? Some new human-like species?
They are a post-war invention by the CIA
VR porn and furry conventions
I keep saying this cause it’s a take a lot of people gloss over. I haven’t dated in a while because I’m too broke to add anything else to my budget, dive bars included. Dating takes time and money, and if I get more of either, I’m using it to better my situation before thinking about dating.
In a time where real wealth is dwindling for most young men, I can imagine I’m not alone on this.
Well when men keep hearing “don’t approach us”, we shouldn’t be shocked when men don’t approach people.
At the same time, lots of men are really shitty when they “approach” women.
“Don’t approach us” is a response to men’s behaviour, not the other way around.
So yeah don’t approach women, got it.
Very incel-y, but sure.
Or, you could take it as a statement with the subtext that it clearly has, which is “dont approach us if youre going to be an asshole.”
If you would rather stew in bitterness than adjust to the above, the first option is likely better for everyone.
I think if women meant that they would say it instead of “never approach women”
Blaming men for listening to women is some new level of crazy
Your inability to understand nuance might be part of the problem. Having to explain every single exception spelled out literally takes too long to get the guy acting creepy away from them.
You haven’t explained anything, you just keep shitting out the same response hoping you’ll shame me into going away.
Yeah, because you’re drowning in self-pity instead of understanding that men are the problem in the vast majority of cases. You’re bitching around instead, that’s typical incel behavior.
You can go up to a woman and flirt with her - just don’t be an asshole and accept a “no” without crying or further harassing her ;) It’s really not hard. Most appreciate it.
Step 1- be attractive.
Step 2 - don’t be unattractive.
I’m at 0/2 so far are there any more steps?
Be rich
Cry me a river. I’ve never heard a women say “don’t approach me”, but I’ve heard many say “don’t be a douche” and “stop thinking you’re a fucking victim”.
You already forgot the bear in the woods?
Apparently you already forgot their reasoning behind it. A bear is a known quantity. Humans can lie to gain your trust, then turn on you. They weren’t saying all men are bad, they were saying that meeting a stand man alone in the woods - you have no idea how this person will act.
The fact that yall are still this mad about this just proves that the entire point behind the thought experiment is right.
The bear metaphor was obviously thinly veiled racism/xenophobia from the start. Lots of conservative/moderate women who are terrified of anyone who isn’t white or who is “illegal”
That’s…just no. Wtf? No.
Source: I’ve actually listened to women, in person, describe their reasoning, instead of making up my own justification for something like the incel community decided to do.
The goal was to increase fear of the “other” - which is a classic right wing tactic.
The bear meme was a conservative astroturfed campaign to push people right - which is why it appeared shortly before the 2024 US elections
This is very tinfoil hatty
IDK women are not scared of me. Maybe the problem is you? Maybe you’re not the victim you think you are and you’re just an ass?
These guys are forgetting that you were the only man that they would prefer over the bear.
Congratulations
Geez you incels are stupid. Between victims like you and wannabe “alpha males” who wanna jerk one another, I agree mens are now a bunch of losers who wont ever get laid.
Get ratiod incel
I thought about it and you’re right, you’re a victim. Women are bad, just don’t approach them and find other dudes likes you to hang out. Good luck.
women are not scared of me
So you’re a pathetically tiny and weak man let, or you’re just unaware of the feelings of women?
You’re not a man, you’re a victim lol. Get use to porn.
Didn’t they explicitly ask via #metoo movement and what not for men to NOT approach them directly ever or else they screem that this is harassment?
No that’s totally different. You can approach women just don’t be a douche/creep and respect the rejections and otherwise when it works you’re in.
Your point holds under circumstances that make them uncomfortable like during night or when they’re feeling unsafe because a few bad apples do invoke trauma.
If you’re not a bad apple you have nothing to worry about. Except femcels, those ones are misandrists and theres no hope like for incels. Leave them to correct themselves or stay alone forever.
If you’re not a bad apple you have nothing to worry about. Except femcels, those ones are misandrists and theres no hope like for incels.
It’s not always immediately obvious who those are. So every interaction is a dice roll to see if you get a date, get rejected politely, or screamed at and publicly dragged through the mud. Remember the Instagram gym girls yelling at gym bros glancing in their general direction? For a lot of younger men, the consequences of the risk, however small, outweigh the reward.
And women run the gamble of getting murdered because some little man couldn’t handle rejection, gonna be honest here bud, I think that’s a little bit worse than being posted on someone’s cringe compilation.
A lot of people in this thread are talking about how much women suck because of X, Y, Z. But like… have you tried not dating shitty women? Or at least not getting so hung up on a woman who treats you poorly? Yeah, it sucks to be treated badly, but consider that you just dodged a bullet. You don’t need women like that in your life. Find a woman you actually connect with, someone you share interests with, not just someone you want to sleep with.
Two hard truths a lot of single men need to reckon with:
1: Most people are kind of shitty, and therefore, most women are kind of shitty. I could go on about how consumer culture and social media encourage toxic traits, but the fact of the matter is you should focus on not being a shitty person yourself, and you shouldn’t settle for shitty people either.
2: With number one in mind, you need to broaden your horizons regarding what kind of woman you’re attracted to. Porn and social media have rotted our brains when it comes to attraction. Maybe I’m just pervy, but honestly, I can find something attractive in just about everyone. 90% of people are at least a 7/10 if they put in some effort, and a 7/10 who you truly vibe with is better than a 10/10 who treats you like shit. And trust me, when you form a true romantic connection with someone, they become even more attractive in your eyes.
There are good, beautiful women out there, I know because I’m marrying one. We met online, and she’s one of the kindest and smartest people I’ve ever met, and I find her more beautiful than anyone else in the world. And I’m a fat, impoverished, autist. If I can do it, so can you.
Most people are kind of shitty, and therefore, most women are kind of shitty.
I don’t know if this is exactly inspiring anyone haha.
But men are equally shitty, so you just have to find someone on the same shit spectrum as you!
So many comments echoing “women told us to stop approaching us, so we did!”
I mean no offense, truly, but you missed the point if that’s the message you took. It wasn’t “Do not, under any circumstances, speak to a woman” it was, “if you shoot your shot and she’s not interested, move on and don’t make it weird. If she is at work, be very careful as customer service does not equal flirting.” Yes, there are some grey areas (not sure even the best gentleman could slide up to a woman alone in a parking lot and not freak her out), but some of you are kicking up the board without even moving a piece. Stop pushing the narrative that only attractive men can speak to women. Not only are you assuming you’re not attractive by saying that (which cannot be good for your confidence) , you’re reducing women’s feelings and concerns as being blindly shallow and unwarranted.
The world is not full of only beautiful people, yet people still live and love. Not to dismiss the difficulties (as an uggo myself, I get it), but you can get out there, I know you can.
It wasn’t “Do not, under any circumstances, speak to a woman”
Actually, as explained to me by a woman, it was exactly that.
This was well after I had married, somewhere in my fifth decade, so I was off that particular playing field for quite some time by that point. But on a lark I had asked a feminist what this “leave women alone” refrain meant. And some of it made perfect sense: don’t hit up cashiers or anyone doing their jobs, they’re just being nice and friendly because they are being paid to be polite.
But it also meant don’t approach women when they’re shopping for groceries, as they’re probably tired from work and just want to go home. Don’t approach women on public transportation, as they’re just trying to get home and don’t want to be accosted in a cramped public venue. Don’t approach women when they’re out with friends, because they are with friends and don’t want to be cleaved off like how a predator isolates a member of a herd.
This went on and on, to some pretty ridiculous lengths. Whereupon I asked, “how is any man supposed to do an unsolicited approach to chat up a woman?”, to which she said - and no, not kidding at all - “They shouldn’t. Any man who we’re interested in will understand when we’re interested in them.”
Like… telepathy.
Literal
f**king
telepathy.Sure as shit, this is what a woman said to me.
Most men get absolutely zero life experience in decoding super-subtle hints, and now they’re supposed to miraculously become an expert in navigating a potentially life-destroying minefield, where the only two outcomes is magically getting it right, or risking a non-trivial probability of incarceration and a criminal record when they (invariably) get it wrong?
No wonder so many men are saying “thanks, but no thanks.” That the juice - the outcome - is just no longer worth the squeeze - all the effort and risk that is shouldered. I don’t blame them in the least. They’re the smart ones.
And those who are slightly less smart are at least asking the $10,000 question: why aren’t women making the first approach? I mean, isn’t that what this whole “equality of the sexes” shtick was all about? Why don’t women put their money where their mouths are, and ask MEN out, for a change? Because I can guarantee that while any normal woman will experience a certain level of rejection, it will still be several orders of magnitude less than what a similarly-normal man experiences.
I have a feeling this is a very american thing. Random encounters with the other sex were the norm in Germany (at least before tinder and the likes, no idea how it’s nowadays). Being confident got you a long way. Not always, mind you. But often enough. Most women actually like being spoken to, as long as it’s a friendly encounter. I believe it might be different in America because everyone there is trying to one up each other (often resulting in loud and annoying behavior). I wouldn’t want to be chatted up by the cliche american guy either.
Honestly, I get it’s a green text, but this is pretty easily explained. First off: dating is fucking expensive, and unfortunately standard gender roles means the dude foots the bill most of the time. Yes times are changing, but that’s still pretty standard. Pair that with the fact that dudes usually have to make the first move (again, old gender standards) and the fact that social media adds another layer of risk of being ridiculed or making someone viral because they were ‘crimge’ or ‘gave the girl the ick’ and it’s a pretty stacked deck. Hell, point one is such a strong weigh in that it’s enough to explain all of it. People are more broke than ever, and if dating by default involves going out, well guess that date isn’t going to happen.
I recently ended a 6 year relationship. I’m not going to settle down with anyone again unless they have their own stuff going on like a career and goals. I think a lot of women expect men to manage all the finances, set goals, plan vacations and provide stability but they don’t want to do the traditional gender role stuff like cooking and cleaning or making a home. So what’s the point? Why make someone else’s life easier if they don’t do the same for you? had a son young(I was 19 when I had him) and he’s 11 now, so it’s not like I’m dreaming of starting a family. Most women bring nothing to the table. And if you’re lucky enough like me to have a good income, house, car, etc… you realize a lot of things are easier living alone.
Women want the princess treatment but don’t know how to act like a princess. Beyond that, sex isn’t all it’s hyped up to be. I know I sound like a redpill incel but dating shouldn’t be a priority for anyone. What’s the rush? Don’t fall for the first thing you see, make sure they’re worth it first.
Re: “sex isn’t all it’s hyped up to be.” Sex with someone you love is the best thing.
Have you actually tried taking unrepentant time off, where you have no work or social obligations, and grabbing unhealthy snacks and drinks, curling up with a good game, and zoning out of reality for hours or days at a time?
Sex is nice and all, and we’re hard wired to like it more than most activities, but it does not hold a single candle to unrepentant free time when you’re not used to said free time.
What a crazy way to say you’ve never had sex.
Women have been told they only need to exist to be desired and are not putting any effort at the beginning of the relationship and men are getting tired of doing all the lift without any reciprocation.
That has been my experience, anyway, and I’m getting tired of meeting women that show no effort to make things work.
Who told women that?
