Vibes based analysis on a non-existent party.
Motherfuckers will criticize a top down solution for not being a bottom up solution. Like obviously you will never find a bottom up solution to capitalism within electoral politics but why criticize a cat for not being a dog when there was zero chance a cat ever could be a dog? There’s no reason to yell at clouds when our work is on the ground.
I have a lot of disagreements with Corbyn, but Jesus they could at least give critical support.
Good critique against socdem politics but ultimately they need to lay down a solution ie maybe find who is most revolutionary potential within the UK population and build a socialist mass movement from that with an understanding of scientific socialism.
Having said that, “at least they are trying” is not a valid rebuttal against criticism of socdem politics when what they have been “trying” has failed for decades. There is no theory of political change here outside of bourgoisie electoral politics and not once have they outlined what they are going to do meaningfully different this time. “Creating space” is also further idealist nonsense.
Western marxism is a disease. We are in an ML space and there is still a significant amount of reaction in lemmygrad (“Kautskism”, “ludditism” and orientalism just to name a few, and more the comments than the posts). There are capitalist countries where people have a lot less resources and they do a way better job of organising; the difference is they are in the Global South so maybe that tells us something here.
Maybe the material conditions still have not reached critical mass here. One will need to do a statistical deep dive and derive revolutionary pragmatism from that data. I’m so disillusioned by westerners that I am not sure I care at this stage (the latter of which I realise really isn’t a marxist attitude).
Its the first time the working class is taking a step towards its independence from the capitalist party system in the UK in a long time. Its a fucking huge step forward. Will this party evolve to have a marxist understand capable of the political chores it has to take? I dont know. But this party forming shows a clear tendency in this direction, even if this party will be substituted for another even far leftier in the future. The analysis in this article is hot garbage
Its the first time the working class is taking a step…
I’m afraid the sentiment is not correct.
https://redsails.org/concessions/
One is really going to have to explain the theory of political change here that bests what is explained in that article; namely workers in the west used the leverage of the USSR to gain concessions (by threatening domestic revolution) that created the “welfare state” of the West but ultimately they were not good enough as it left the exploitation of the global south to fester and still led to present conditions as capital is clawing back (since at least the 1980s) the concessions it gave. Back then you had communist and marxist organisations leading the fray. We don’t even have that here.
One thing is what things are today, another is what they will be tomorrow. JCs party may not be the marxist party you would like right now, but it can certainly (and i would bet it will) develop this tendency inside itself. Take Cuba as an example, and how parties developed along the process of the revolution. I think the most important factor here is not the party, but the tendency it shows
So what is Corbyn’s scientific theory of political change that supercedes marxism? What about his new party’s? What are they going to differently this time given decades of failure? Do you know why CommieJones brought up Kautsky? Why is your winning theory socdem tailism?
What material conditions did you identify in Batista’s Cuba that were similar to neo-imperialist Britain that you felt were significant enough to be compelled to make that comparison? What characteristics of the electorate have you identified with more revolutionary potential than those before them for the past century especially post October revolution when there were actual marxist led movements?
Do you understand marxism is a science?
Further reading for those lurking:
(1) https://redsails.org/why-marxism/
(2) How Gene Sharp’s Neoliberal Nonviolence Shaped the Left (2020): https://redsails.org/marcie-smith-gene-sharp/
(3) Imperialism and the Split in Socialism: https://redsails.org/imperialism-and-the-split-in-socialism/
Not going to discuss any further for i have presented everything i think is important. You think this party is a nothingburguer because Corbin made quite bad mistakes in the past as a political leader? Ok, do your analysis based on that and let future prove whos more accurate
You think this party is a nothingburguer because Corbin made quite bad mistakes in the past as a political leader?
It is to do with the masses/electorate; that is how you sublate Great Man Theory. (And it is “Corbyn”) If there are meaningful successes it will be despite his present politics.
He was a leader where party members were fired in the name of fighting “anti-semitism” while there was ethnic cleansing ongoing. At the height of his career in Labour he staffed it with liberal zionists. He was a longstanding member of a party over the past century responsible for various war crimes and crimes against humanity.
And despite the above people want to rally around him; what does that then say about those masses that they are privileged enough to ignore those mistakes? That at best they give the impression that they are happy to have the loot of imperialism shared more equitably? That this is a vehicle to blunt the edge of what could be achieved by still acquiescing to bourgoisie electoralism?
Is being better than a majority of other Western politicians the low bar that one wants to hold as a high standard?
Revolutionary potential will be despite all of the above, not because of it.
To dismiss the lessons of the global south is a bigoted lens only Westernism can permit. Instead, learn from their organising under much more challenging circumstances with significantly less resources.
For those lurking please read broadly, educate yourself and open your mind of what could be possible.
the first time the working class is taking a step towards its independence from the capitalist party system in the UK in a long time
This is exactly what people said about labor a hundred and 25 years ago.
Looking for a hero in the Bourgeois political system so you can vote your way to socialism is not just delusional its lazy.
Your focus in the person of corbin shows your complete lack of understanding basic concepts of marxism. Power doesnt come from personality, it comes from class. And afaik a lot of people linked to sindicates are joining him. If you take that asside and focus on his personality, you look at politics like any liberal.
Ok there Kautsky.
